11/25/03, 9:15 PM
austin: sorry. computer messing up
carl: it's a kind of Yoga
winnie: i dunno really. lotsa ganja smoking and low-maintenance hair-dos.
austin: hi lauren
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austin: bye bye lauren.
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austin: so where are we...
winnie: hope we didn't offend you there, lauren
fred: okay some questions: what is the difference b/t the last two songs and the first time they come around?
carl: I think there's an instrumental version or something
carl: but I like it because I think it brings you back around at the end
fred: umm i don't think so all four songs have vocals ...
fred: it's nice to have a little reprise though
carl: it's the kind of circle of life thing that I'm sure most rastafarians would be into.
carl: oh, one version of "the harder they come" is kind of "extended"
fred: okay next: where did this music come from? did this music happen when the slaves in jamaica mixed their music w/ the white music? like a separate evolution from the states which led to a completely diff thing?
fred: anyone know?
carl: I'm definitely not the right person to ask. I know a little about Bob Marley and Chris Blackwell (did anyone get that two-disc version of Catch a Fire?)
fred: heh. man this is a slow chat
fred: but that's cool. reggae is slow also
carl: everybody got their spliffs?
austin: oh yeah
fred: oh heh
carl: Catch a Fire was interesting -- they released the original Jamaican version along side the final Island Records version
austin: don't know much about the genre. but this reggae is definitely more white than some of the stuff that i've heard
carl: Chris Blackwell took the 4-track tapes and added some poppy sounding stuff to them
fred: i'm wondering if there's a connection w/ spirituals or something b/c of the rivers imagery and the ref to babylon ... did the slaves in jamaica have the same spirituals as in the states?
winnie: i can see how tracks like #2 might have influenced the likes of ali G
carl: I like the more stripped down stuff personally, but it's interesting to hear, for example, how "Stir It Up" got turned into a "hit" by Blackwell.
austin: wow came out in 1973
winnie: doubtful, fred
carl: anyway I diverge
fred: ali g?
austin: what about ali g?
carl: fred, the allmusic link you gave about this disc was kind of interesting.
fred: who's ali g?
winnie: the intro to #2
austin: it's weird. i've heard the intro before
winnie: what's the link?
fred: is ali g or sounds like ali g?
fred: the link's on the flava page
austin: in a sound track for a snowboarding movie
austin: the furthest things from reggae i can think of
allmusic fred: any favorites anyone?
fred: i really dug the johnny too bad track
fred: i found it surprisingly emotional
fred: which is sort of funny b/c on the surface it doesn't particularly sound that much diff from the other tracks
fred: okay i think i'm about to give up here. did you guys listen to this cd or what?
austin: i like sweet and dandy
winnie: yes, yes fred.
winnie: no one particular track really stood out for me, however
carl: ok I'm sorry. I didn't listen to it at all.
winnie: is that bad or unexpected?
carl: that's fine
fred: i don't think it's unexpected. i think the genre has a same-y sound
carl: ok lets move on
winnie: i'm glad i have it in my collection
fred: hold on
winnie: it's good party music
austin: do you guys have a hard time figuring out what they're singing?
winnie: especially after a pot-man delivery
winnie: uh, yeah. but that always seems to be the case. jimmy cliff or no.
carl: it's about rude boys and stuff.
austin: there's no references to getting high. but i guess it was a movie sound track
winnie: hmm. is that where rudies originated?
winnie: i thought that was purely a ska thing
carl: it's really kind of a rebel movie. a guy with a dream, oppressed, etc.
carl: lashes out
fred: but there is a lot of variety on the one disc. there's a fast shuffle beat on the first track, a slow beat on the 2nd track, and the ballad on #4, and #5 is relatively fast ... actually the beats sound pretty similar
fred: with variations in speed
carl: and so on.
fred: geez do i live in a box or what?
carl: this was jimmy cliff's breakout disc apparently
winnie: yes, fred. a very little one.
austin: still in your box?
carl: since he has half the tracks
fred: what's a rudy?
winnie: does he get sampled alot?
carl: he's the other bob
carl: the secondary bob
fred: i think the thing that distinguishes the tracks for me is the vocalists, they're all pretty distinctive
fred: speaking of which i meant to ask if it's really unusual that limbo had a female vocalist
carl: some nice make out songs in here if you don't pay attention to the lyrics.
winnie: why do you ask that?
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fred: i was wondering if reggae is one of those genres where women are really underrepresented
carl: good question. they do tend to only do backing vocals don't they...
fred: track 9 was the only one w/ a woman lead
austin: yeah that's the first time i heard a female reggae vocalist
winnie: interesting. i never really thought about that
fred: another question, what does jimmy cliff play? does he write the music?
carl: yeah he wrote it and sings
fred: b/c some of these things sound they may be derived from something, like spirituals or something
austin: it's a funny mix of rock and reggae.
austin: sounds like he tried to massmarket it
austin: which ones in particular fred?
fred: really? it'd be interesting to hear some really early reggae i think
winnie: i bet it'd sound more like spirituals
winnie: and not really much like reggae
winnie: or sort of like reggae. but not really.
fred: i guess many rivers, esp since it has that organ intro
winnie: if you know what i mean.
austin: sort of
austin: but not really
carl: ok I have the liner notes here,
fred: and also "white cliffs of dovers" doesn't sound like a particularly jamaican analogy
austin: what? reggae came from new orleans R&B?
fred: reggae's forefather is ska??
winnie: that sounds wrong.
winnie: no, no
fred: you don't trust allmusic?
carl: "Shanty Town - where the best grass in the world sells for two dollars an ounce on the street, where ...
winnie: well as far as i've always known, ska comes from reggae
carl: shooting a film can be help up when an actor is shot (2 have died since it was completed), where people sing in church till they have an orgasm (than you Lord)..."
winnie: wow. take me to church.
fred: i think it makes sense that it's from new orleans. the instrumentation is very gospel ... organ and piano, backup chorus, guitars, drums
fred: we should move on. any other comments?
winnie: one last comment: i disagree
carl: the movie is about making the soundtrack for the movie
austin: really? worth renting?
winnie: i'm interested in seeing this
carl: and getting ripped off by the record industrytry, etc.
fred: heh we could watch it at the next flava party
carl: and shooting people, etc.
austin: of course
winnie: okay. sounds like a plan
winnie: good pick, carl
carl: "Day and night the studios scattered around in shanty town turn out tunes...
fred: yeah carl thanks it's a nice disc to have
carl: blah blah blah
carl: "The oppressors are trying to keep me down" etc.
fred: makes me feel like my musical horizons have been broadened
carl: okay, lets move on
austin: yeah definitely something different
fred: i'm interested in how people liked good ol kerith
fred: or not
winnie: i have to run to the bathroom, but first, comments
winnie: i didn't like him.
carl: I really liked some of the songs.
carl: what's his story?
austin: first impression was: it sounds like smashing pumpkins
winnie: he's a poor man's billy corgan.
carl: yeah me too
fred: i love the pumpkins. i think it's a cross b/t the pumpkins and sunny day real estate
winnie: but the tracks sound like the bastard love-child of blink 182 and pinback
fred: but i think they have a really unique sound. they have some really nice textures, like the beginning of track 2 is so great
fred: w/ the cello and the light picking
austin: yeah i liked track 2
austin: starts a little slow though
carl: same here
fred: i love how all of their songs have so many diff bits
winnie: yes, but they're sort of melody-less
winnie: or nothing i can really hum
carl: some of the bits are really nice
austin: well it's not like blink 182 in that way
fred: i don't see how this sounds like blink at all. i think blink is crass and straightforward whereas this feels very orchestrated to me
winnie: i can't really hum blink 182
fred: i mean, he just used the word "aestivating"
winnie: well then i'm not thinking of blink
austin: yeah i don't see it either. let's move on
fred: i also love how each song develops and then there's the rock out endings
winnie: who sings that song "where goes my hero..."
winnie: or "there goes my hero.."
winnie: or whatever the hell
carl: some of this also reminds me of the kind of laid back vibe you'd get from something like... Cowboy Junkies.
carl: except not quite as good
winnie: track #4 is promising
winnie: but then those silly alt-rock guitars chime in
winnie: and all is lost
fred: do you mean track 5?
austin: the riff really reminded me another chessey rock song
fred: oh you do mean track 4
winnie: yep. i do.
winnie: oh shit
winnie: there goes my hero
winnie: is a foo fighters song
winnie: i think
winnie: yes, it is
winnie: i guess it's better than sounding like bling 182. er, blink.
fred: but listen to the 2nd section of that song. i love how the guitars have this beat and then in the 2nd measure the guitar comes in on the off beat
winnie: do you see how it reminds me of pinback?
fred: i didn't explain that very well
fred: yeah i hear that
winnie: i think that part is very pinbacky
fred: i love the reverberating guitars on tracks 5 and 7
winnie: it's funny how there's a particular chord that's very alt-rock
winnie: it's one of the last chords in #4
winnie: maybe it's a seventh chord?
fred: i think they really exploit a wide palette of sounds
carl: yes they do
fred: and i think it's amazing that the album sounds more sculptured and meticulous than so many other albums that have huge budgets
austin: that is true
winnie: what's the story w/ this guy?
winnie: w/o pointing me to allmusic, please.
fred: i think their pacing is also good, like how at 1:44 of tr 5 the whole band just hangs ... and then bumbumbumbumbum
fred: these guys are totally indie. they're from ohio and this is the only LP they put out before they regrouped
fred: they were on my first flava mix. they're technically a christian band
carl: when they regrouped they were called The Smashing Pumpkins
fred: har har
fred: do you know the pumpkins very well? they really don't sound that similar
winnie: i think SP has a more epic, much bigger sound
carl: sometimes, I hear it in the vocals really
winnie: yes, same.
fred: oh i see what you mean
winnie: are they really a christian group?
austin: yeah did you read the story behind the name/
winnie: can you just tell me?
fred: i like the pulse of tr 7 ... and then the middle section around 1:44 where it drifts for like a minute before the rockout i think that's pretty unique don't you?
carl: I'm wary of rockouts. Sometimes these guys are good, sometimes it's just a guitar headache
winnie: i guess i think they just sound generic
winnie: wow, i really committed myself to an opinion there, didn't i.
fred: i can hear that. but i like how their rockouts don't just end up being the climax to the song. like on track 7 after the rockout there's still a whole slow section after it
fred: was it obvious that track 3 was a completely diff sound?
winnie: sure, but still that doesn't seem particularly innovative to me
winnie: mates of state is kind of like that
winnie: and even more so
winnie: i thought 5 was quite different
fred: no but my point is that they're playing w/ structure and pacing much more than most people i think. they're def not just verse chorus verse chorus bridge chorus
winnie: true, true.
fred: #9 is also really diff
fred: very major
carl: I do like the slow/fast dynamics etc
carl: I think that's a key thing for bands
carl: a key element
winnie: yes. particularly in a live show
fred: yeah i'm still really bummed that i never got to see them live really
winnie: (i say this only b/c i'm thinking of the new pornographers show, which i thought was boring after a while, and the ms. john soda show, which rocked the house.)
fred: it's funny i got their cd sort of on a whim and it really is up there in my top 10 albums of all time
carl: are the key players still playing in some other group(s)?
fred: yeah a band called oh fuck what are they called
fred: oh yeah lovedrug ... not as good, more poppy, but i'm still keeping tabs on them
fred: just listen to the first minute and a half of track 8 ... it's such a great development in such a short amount of time and a great intro ...
fred: okay i'll stop being effusive we should wrap it up anyway
winnie: it was okay. it didn't make me nauseated.
winnie: well, maybe a little bit.
fred: heh heh
carl: I think it deserves a closer listen.
fred: from winnie?
winnie: just kidding. i think i'm just turned off by their guitar sound.
carl: from me anyway
fred: fair enough winnie
fred: i guess we'll talk about andy's next time
fred: okay go away people
winnie: okay bye
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fred: have a good t-day
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austin: thanks fred
austin: bye bye