9/16/03
8 p.m. to 9 p.m.

You have just entered room "Chat 8721377612079140313."
winnie: huh? punjabi?
austin: punjabi dahba
winnie: LA was great
winnie: did some shopping
austin: indian restaurant
austin: good shit!
winnie: got some sunshine at the beach
winnie: ate way too much
winnie: yeah, i've been
austin: how's joyce
winnie: she's good
austin: fat burger?
carl has entered the room.
carl: hello
winnie: in n out, babeeee
austin: oh yeah
austin: you must be fat
winnie: i had a double-double, animal style
andy has entered the room.
winnie: with a choco milk shake
austin: wow watch out now. hey have you been to midwest grill?
austin: it's a brazilian steakhouse on cambridge st. soo good
austin: hi everybody
winnie: no
carl: are you in cali winnie?
winnie: too much meat
winnie: no, i got back from LA like a half hour ago
andy: winnie - in CA?
andy: oh fun
carl: cool
winnie: hey austin, there's a HEAR music in santa monica
fred: austin -- where's that indian restaurant?
andy: winnie is the travelingest
winnie: but it's not as good as i remember the palo alto one being
austin: on the corner of hampshire st. and cambridge
austin: where they merge
winnie: nah, i just get the travel itchies
winnie: [scratch, scratch]
winnie: we still waiting for anyone? besides nelson?
fred: i don't think so
winnie: lemme guess, austin, you get the vindaloo?
austin: sorry had to go get door
winnie: i remember that their korma was disappointing
austin: nope. too spicy
andy: bad korma
austin: got tikka masala
austin: you should know that
winnie: oh right
winnie: your favorite
fred: so ...
andy: i loved this mix
winnie: me too
andy: reeefreshing
fred: aww thanks!
austin: definitely refreshing
austin: doesn't have that overproduced sound. v refreshing
andy: it also just reminded me of how much I like acoustic and folk music
andy: Danielle Smith takes a bit of patience
fred: haha
andy: . . . I like the songs (a bit drippy) but her voice is tougher to love
austin: i gave a couple of tries
fred: yeah i think on the surface she sounds like just another coffeehouse chick but i think her songs are very well put together
andy: me too - who is she?
fred: my year at mit
fred: i looove the harmonics on the first track
andy: gimme a number
winnie: i definitely like that one the best of her tracks
andy: where r the harmonics?
fred: yeah i like how it doesn't repeat very much so you have to listen to it over and over to really get it ... at least i did
fred: they're all those high bell-like notes
andy: um . . where, not what
fred: hold on
andy: oh sorry - i was listening to track 2
andy: woops
fred: haha
andy: yes - they're lovely . . . very medieval, very renaissance fairt
carl: (plating my dinner) some good songs on this mix.. I am a production snob so it was hard to get past the homebrew recordings.. but, I did.
fred: i have to say that a lot of her other tracks tend to be more on the drippy side ... i think she does fast songs really well but she doesn't do so many of them
andy: ah but carl - good production would ruin so many of these
andy: or at least compromise their honest earthiness
fred: carl: yeah, i thought that it would be interesting to hear what people had to say about that. i'm a huge fan of completely bare stuff
fred: it feels so much more pure and direct to me
andy: i gotta say I'm usually drawn to icily overproduced
andy: so this was good to hear
fred: was that supposed to be icky?
andy: no - icy
fred: mm
andy: like steely dan - the cold boys themselves
winnie: well i think acoustic guitar & singer-songwriter take to being underproduced
andy: me too
winnie: (as does garage rock/punk)
carl: did you know that most live shows have overdubbed vocals?
carl: I just learned recently
fred: what??
andy: yup - and Fannypack
winnie: wow
winnie: this i did not know
carl: I mean the live shows that are really "produced"
fred: oh
fred: you mean like madonna?
andy: oh come on guys
austin: i thought only the spice girls do that
carl: sorry I'm not explaining right...
andy: I love janet as much as the next man
carl: I mean if they end up releasing a CD of a live show, they frequently overdub the vocals in the studio
andy: but - you think she actually sounds that way
austin: oh
austin: that's cheating
winnie: doesn't madonna usually sing all her shit live?
carl: because it's almost impossible to get a good live vocal sound
carl: at a live show
winnie: cos she sure has sounded like it, when i've seen it televised anyway
andy: she tries
fred: yeah madonna def does as far as i know
winnie: i mean, clearly, most of the others that do a lot of running about onstage can't expect to sound so good
andy: i think it's fine to re-produce
carl: at the show, it's all live
fred: i like reproducing too! haha andy
winnie: ("wooooo [pant, pant] ... woaaahhh oooohhh [pant]"
carl: usually (unless it's spice girls et al)
austin: haha
andy: live albums are kinda dumb i think . . . makes me feel like a voyeur
fred: i like em
fred: anyway ... so stephen kellogg anyone?
winnie: i like the parts of them where there's a different interpretation of a studio track
carl: but--- I bet those MTV unplugged are not overdubbed later.. except for audience/appluase stuff
andy: love the first one
andy: nice country shuffle
winnie: i agree, andy
fred: yeah def
winnie: i love kellogg the most on this mix
andy: sweet words too
fred: the 2nd one not so much but i'd already used my other fav song on a mix i made andy
carl: he is good but it was too grocery store for me
fred: winnie: no way!?
winnie: really? why
andy: they've only met recently I think, and he thinks she's boos
andy: boss
fred: who?
andy: well the next track didn't grab me so much
winnie: why are you saying "no way?!" to me?
fred: just when i thought i knew winnie's taste in music
winnie: hey, i'm not that easy to read
andy: ah - but winnie's noo mix is a brainpan opener
carl: yeah winnie, that's a surprise
andy: so there
andy: BUT
andy: that's for later . . .
fred: i would've thought you would've hated the second SK track
andy: ahem
andy: I actually think the 2nd SK track is my least fave
winnie: ha. well it sort of sounds james taylor-y
winnie: but i don't mind that
andy: yes
winnie: only because i like the first one so much
fred: heh
winnie: and then some jewel-wannabe chimes in
fred: i'll put up another SK track for you, w, but i'm sad to report that his other stuff isn't so good in general
andy: hate the girl singer
fred: HAHA
fred: she's okay. generic but okay
winnie: oh. that's unfortunate
andy: generic is never okay
winnie: i should explain that i find myself drawn these days to newer country
fred: really? like shania?
fred: haha
andy: ugh
winnie: (but i also love that emmylou and the man in black)
winnie: nooooo
carl: SK reminds me of... marc cohn? someone like that. the "walking in memphis" guy, without gospel singers
andy: what about old country
andy: oh - they are old country
austin: haha you've mention this. from indie to country
winnie: marc cohn, who i always got confused with james taylor, incidentally
andy: carl - perhaps because, like marc cohn he only has one good song in him
carl: hehehe
winnie: and hank rules too
andy: jame smanaged 3 or 4
winnie: no, i mean indie country (of course)
winnie: uncle tupelo
fred: indie country??
fred: heh
andy: does everyone know the shins' versions of the james mercer songs?
fred: there's only one james m song
andy: they sound so much more ordinary in these versions
fred: the orig version of that is so whack
fred: heh
andy: oh - well - it then
winnie: you mean in his version?
carl: no but I liked that song and though "this sounds very shins"
andy: no - The band version
andy: much more crunvhy
winnie: really? i think it's very blah the way mercer sings it
andy: um - crunchy
fred: this track? i think it was the best one of the show we saw at t.t.'s
fred: it really made my ears perk up
winnie: that may be
andy: rilly?
winnie: but i think i prefer all the shins to just good ol' james
winnie: esp since marty is my favorite
fred: w, didn't i make you a copy of that show?
fred: i think james is -hot-
winnie: yeah
andy: the band or the guy
winnie: james IS hot, but i would pick marty first
fred: the guy!
fred: marty's a goofball
fred: but cute too
winnie: so cute
winnie: and he'd keep me in stitches with his silliness
fred: haha
austin: hey i thought this show taping only existed in high fidelity
fred: new shins ep on the 23rd of sept i think and a new album at the end of oct ... yeah!
winnie: he just looks so cute when he bops up & down onstage while jamming on the keyboard
fred: austin: huh?
austin: there are so many people trading tapes on kellogs' site
andy: Fred to you add any ovedubbed vocals to James?
austin: sorry
fred: what? i don't have any live kellogg's on this
fred: har har har andy
austin: right. sorry. i was just reading his site
andy: I like the Joe Weiner stuff
fred: i really like it
andy: he's another mit guy, yeah?
austin: anyways, yeah he's my fav on this mix
fred: he really sounds like he knows what he's doing. he has about three diff guitar things going on at once
winnie: hey austin -- this is shite: i just looked up hear music, and it turns out they're owned by friggin starbucks!!!!
winnie: waaah
fred: yeah me too i think overall
austin: oh nooooooooo
fred: no not MIT, just a boston guy i ran across
austin: what a dilemma
winnie: so fred, would you have expected me to like weiner the most?
fred: joe seems to throw in a lot of weird little bits into it
fred: w, yeah ... what'd you think of him?
fred: like the major chord at the end of the chorus on the first joe song. on the word "gone" is so great
winnie: i do like him very much, but he kind of blends in with all my acoustic indie crooners
nelson has entered the room.
winnie: like elliot smith
carl: weinerschnitzel
fred: i don't think he sounds that indie to me ... i mean, not in that wussy sort of way
winnie: oh, for pete's sake
fred: he sounds like he's got balls
austin: hahahha
winnie: indie does not equal wussiy
austin: here we go again
carl: yeah he's less wussie than some of the others on this mix
fred: hahaha
fred: sorry winnie
carl: but what's wuss got to do with it, anyway?
fred: i mean, i like death cab and shins and b&s i think i appreciate wussie in limited quantities
winnie: how are the shins wussy?
austin: you're right. indie's a lot more than just being wussy
fred: i really love how the 2nd joe track has all these little sections, esp the totally random little instrumental bits
fred: w: james has a wussy voice. nuff said. heh
winnie: is that a metronome in the 2nd one?
winnie: yeah, but a wussy voice does not a wussy band make
fred: i dunno. but i like how it sounds really lo fi. i find it very charming
fred: the little instrumental bit on that song sounds so well-crafted.
fred: it really amazes me
austin: wow yeah the guitar's fantastic
austin: where does he play?
carl: yeah he
winnie: joe is definitely an elliot-come-lately
fred: a what?
winnie: the construction of his songsremind me so much of elliot smith
carl: is this from a live show?
andy: Elliott was a kucky s.o.b with entirely average sngskills
winnie: doesn't sound like it
fred: no they're from mp3s i got randomly online
andy: right place right time is all
carl: oh ok
fred: what does elliot-come-lately mean?
winnie: well, instead of johnny-come-lately
andy: he just met Gus Van Sant in time to make a movie soundtrack
fred: yeah i don't think joe's put out any albums ... yet. hopefully he will soon.
winnie: cos, well, i'm not talking about a johnny
fred: haha
andy: which pushed him into the limelight for, what, three months
winnie: whatever. i liked smith's "xo"
andy: yup - me too
winnie: i thought it was excellent. and would very nearly make my desert island
austin: hey i was going to put an ani difranco on my next mix
andy: but did you ever hear anything else you liked
winnie: really, austin?
winnie: that's astonishing. no sarcasm
winnie: the track from the royal tenennbaums
fred: the third joe song really gets me too ... it's really energetic and i like how it sounds sort of rough ...
austin: yeah it's one of the 33 songs on nick hornby's song book
austin: called you've had time
austin: really really good
fred: haha. don't really like that track.
austin: really?
fred: and just to be an ani snob, i think it's actually called "you" had time
austin: yeah whatev
fred: hahaha
austin: i love the first three minutes where she screws around on the piano and never quite finds the melody
austin: and then the guitar takes over and it's gorgeous from there
winnie: ani really annoys me sometimes
austin: anyways
fred: cool cool
austin: back to joe
winnie: her schtick gets old
fred: yeah she can be, but so can everyone, yeah?
carl: she really annoys me all the time
fred: lol
winnie: noooo
winnie: live is especially bad
andy: righteous babe
fred: hahaha
carl: but I like that about her.
winnie: b/c at least you can switch cds if you get sick of her recording and not feel like you've wasted like $12 or whatever
fred: i like people who when you listen to them you have a strong reaction
fred: good or bad
austin: ahha
austin: bad reaction?
andy: me too - I like how uncompromising she is
winnie: uh, well i have a strong reaction when i hear death metal, but that doesn't necessarily mean there's any sort of liking involved
fred: heh
andy: seems to be unimpressed with stardom
carl: wait, which track is the death metal?
fred: but i like the idea of music being uncompromising. even if people can be self-indulgent, i like the idea of them not selling out so they can be "accessible" as andy would say
austin: haha
winnie: no, no, carl. i just meant in general
andy: lauryn hill IS death metal
carl: ;-)
winnie: noooo
fred: so lauryn hill? thoughts?
winnie: lauryn hill is awesome
carl: those lauryn tracks were my fav
fred: this is another example of it being a little self-indulgent, esp at the end of the 2nd track, but it's so raw that it works
andy: um - I was ok with it until just now . . . I've had enough of her earnestness
fred: haha
fred: w: had you heard stuff from this before?
carl: oh come on andy, you gotta give it up for a song ending in tears...
winnie: the whole mix?
fred: i loooove the idea of rap to a solo guitar
fred: w: i meant lauryn hill unplugged
winnie: oh you mean the lauryn hill?
andy: well yeah - but tears about how great god is . . . mmm
winnie: no, i haven't actually
carl: ok, point taken.
fred: andy: is it the god part that bugs you?
winnie: but i loved her 'miseducation'
carl: but i was touched by it nonetheless
andy: I actually was realy impressed with this unplugged
fred: a: i don't think that's fair. i think you can respect the intensity of her belief, even if you don't share it.
andy: I just don't want to listen to it too often
andy: yeah - me too Carl
austin: it's weird how rap is unplugged. where it's not plugged in the beginning
fred: oh okay
andy: I really do like her passion
andy: and it surprised me after "killing me softly'
fred: i wonder if she had to learn guitar for this?
winnie: you've not listened to her other stuff, andy?
fred: i mean, i don't picture puff daddy playing acoustic guitar or anything
austin: oh was it her playing the guitar?
fred: yeah totally
andy: F - I have no beef with her god stuff, but the way she set the song up . . . to eenable her to break down with piety didn't work for me
austin: oh respeckt
andy: she's a pro, she knows when what will happen
fred: this mix was all about a single person under the spotlight w/ just their guitar
andy: w - i know some of mised
andy: s'ok
fred: w: didn't like mised that much
fred: actually liked this album better than that one despite it being outrageously self-indulgent ... funny
winnie: okay
andy: me neither, but she's done great tracks for Aretha, Mary J etc.
fred: a: i'd love to hear more of that stuff
carl: I liked a lot of her rap-- the thing about it in that context is.. she makes you pay attention to the words. nothing else getting in the way. I guess it's like rap folk music.
fred: yeah!
fred: heh
austin: more of what?
fred: a: i don't think she set the song up, the whole song is about religion, not just the ending
andy: yeah - and this unplugged reminded me that she is an authemtic musician, not just a a rearranger
andy: yeah F, I just felt it was kinda self-indulgent is all
carl: yeah LH is pretty special.
andy: but tyhere again, what rap isn't self-indulgent
fred: haha
fred: okay so what about elliot and dan katz?
winnie: i love this katz track
carl: I didn't like either of them.
winnie: he'd pointed it to me before
fred: haha
fred: glad you liked it winnie
austin: how did you [edit] the tracks
carl: katz has a few nice lines
andy: aww carl - this is lowest fi you're gonna get
fred: the more i listen to the dan track the more his sharpness bugs me
winnie: i like his earnestness
fred: yeah
fred: he sounds very young
fred: heh
winnie: but maybe it's because i've had class with him
fred: earnest is a good word
carl: too low. he needs vocal lessons, etc.
andy: you mean music sharp or brain sharp?
fred: music sharp
winnie: well he acts young,
andy: yeah
andy: it's not a pretty voice
carl: it might be OK with training
carl: anyway I had a hard time getting past that
fred: austin: a lot of the editing was actually sort of counter the point of the mix. in the joe song and in the lauryn song i did slight edits where they messed up and had to redo a line
fred: i like the idea of the live experience, mistakes and all
austin: oh dear. postproduction
andy: there's some good words in the dan
fred: but, i find on record hearing the same mistake over and over is too distracting
austin: true true
andy: but his larynx is up in his septum - not a nice sound
fred: an example of live vs live on CD
fred: andy: hahaha.
fred: andy: i think that's partly just his voice
andy: i like the elliot tho
winnie: it's def his voice
andy: yes - I think so
winnie: he sounds like this when speaking
andy: too bad
fred: hahaha
carl: yeah there was some riff about hollow/shallow/blah blah blah. that was pretty good... but then he quoted like 3 lines of Sting.. a little beyond "homage"
andy: he also sounds a little . . . humorless?
winnie: i actually don't have any sort of problem with it
winnie: it's distinctive
fred: i think i'm mostly tolerant when it comes to weird voices
austin: maybe he's rapping it. i like that riff though. dan's
fred: yeah i'm all for distinctive
fred: carl: i don't think he quoted it literally did he?
andy: for dan - i like the verse, but the chorus - yecch
austin: i don't mind that it's high, or sharp. his voice is alittle flat
carl: just the words
fred: carl: yeah i meant the words
fred: i like the chorus!
andy: close enough is too close
fred: haha
andy: i do like hoe he overuses the word 'hollow'
fred: well the guy was only 20 when he wrote it i think that counts for something
winnie: especially given his emotional immaturity
fred: or more like 19
andy: hollow rhyming with hollow makes the word really stick with you
winnie: ha! just kidding.
fred: hahaha
andy: so - is he a genius . . or is it that he can't find a rhymr for hollow?
fred: you guys! he might be reading this after i post it
winnie: i think he put it together pretty well though
austin: come to think of it. his voice his pretty wussy. winnie?
fred: i think we should stop picking on him.
andy: it's the finesty song I've ever heard
austin: oops
andy: finesty?
winnie: oh, he can definitely find a rhyme for hollow
fred: i mean, i don't think his vocal stylings or his lyrics were any worse than, say, lauryn hill
andy: wallow
winnie: if he wants too
andy: follow
winnie: hahahha
fred: lol
andy: swallow
winnie: i don't think he's wussy
winnie: just nasal
andy: etc
winnie: very very nasal
fred: i don't have a problem w/ that as i've said
carl: yea, sounds very "MIT".
winnie: but you probably haven't seen his nose then, either
andy: why is Nick Drake here?
fred: very MIT?!?
austin: haha
carl: haha
fred: what is that supposed to mean??
fred: winnie!
fred: you guys are so mean!
winnie: no i love the kid
fred: lol-
andy: don't show him this F
fred: he might come across it
carl: now we're just messing with you fred.. ;-)
winnie: maybe you should limit access to this chat
andy: we're just responding to the spiteful things you said about him last week Fred
winnie: why not drake, anyd?
fred: well i bet this guy can kick any of your collective asses in advanced math any day
winnie: andy
fred: anyway, yeah i didn't feel the drake worked in retrospect ... it's too familiar
carl: I don't doubt that. in fact you could almost hear his math skills in the track.
winnie: or out-iambic-pentameter us too
andy: it seems do much more accomplished than anything else here
fred: it didn't work for the same reason joni and neil young and cat stevens didn't work
winnie: nice, carl
andy: this mix really made me realize how focused Nick Drake's songs are
fred: i don't think the accomplishment is the problem, i think it's the familiarity
carl: the drake was good
carl: yeah perhaps.
austin: oh you should do another mix with those
andy: it's not that it's familiar Fred - i don't know these songs well
andy: do they sound old?
fred: not even the songs themselves, but the sound of nick drake
winnie: i think they sound less raw
andy: or English?
winnie: maybe it's his voice
andy: me too - both of those
carl: nick drake definitely has a "sound"
carl: voice and production wise... I think
andy: yes - it's produced, clearly
winnie: i'll agree that it's sort of jarring, but i'll take drake any day
fred: yeah, but so was the SK, produced that is
carl: yes, the SK stood out that way
fred: hey -- maybe it's b/c all the other people are american and contemporary
andy: hmm - yeah
carl: drake didn't stand out as much for me.. seemed more consistent somehow
andy: could be F
fred: hm. any specific comments on the ani d tracks?
andy: ah - no i heard it as different, hmm
andy: I'm a convert
winnie: oh shit
winnie: i have to go
fred: bye winnie
winnie: i think the carnivale premiere is being replayed
carl: I hadn't heard much (any?) ani before so thanks for the intro
andy: because of ani?
winnie: byebye
fred: but you didn't like her?
andy: tara
austin: bye
winnie has left the room.
carl: well, now I know what she's about... and it's nice but I can't think of a time I'd put it on.
andy: she's fierce
carl: nice voice and everything, though. she's got style.
fred: i really liked the swan dive song, although i can see how that would annoy people
fred: she's got mean guitar chops also
andy: carl - i pretty much agree
carl: have you listened to this girl uhh...
andy: I really like the stuff, but I'm very glad that fred owns it
carl: Rachel McCarthey? I think is her name
fred: hm don't think so
carl: she plays in the T and in residence at Toad
andy: coz' I'm not sure i'd buy it
fred: c: oh really?
fred: not rachel sage?
carl: nope
carl: she's somewhat similar.. less "pussy" though..
austin: how many T Rachels do you guys know?
fred: i think ani is one of the few chick singers who can really rock
andy: um - you mean less mean-pussy or less girly-pussy?
fred: anyone know oh what's her name ...
fred: meghan toohey? she bores me to death
carl: mean pussy
fred: haha
carl: I like Meghan, with an electric guitar
andy: like ani would blow james hetfield out of the water any day
fred: meghan SUX
fred: haha
carl: okay.
fred: she's like sarah mcg but short
carl: hahaha
andy: oh god save us from sarah
fred: i think it's weird when people like people like sarah mcg
andy: too damn canadian
fred: ohhhhhhh
fred: fightin words!
fred: blame canada!!
austin: hahaha
andy: bring it on
carl: I liked some of her stuff... I have to admit. a nice sound
fred: mm
andy: sara you mean?
carl: none of the lyrics ever really spoke to me
carl: yeah
fred: too girly for me
andy: same here, and i so hated THAT track
fred: but there are a couple songs that i think are okay
andy: too Lillith Fair
carl: yeah there were a few overplayed one.. but who's to blame for that?
austin: lots of variation. always interesting
andy: well - them
fred: sarah mcg? variation??
andy: that's a new take
austin: nononno
austin: ani
fred: heh
andy: welcome back to the fold
fred: yeah def
fred: anyway we should wrap it up
fred: parting shots?
austin: going to keep an eye on joe
fred: yeah. he's put together a band i think
andy: an ear-cleaning mix F
fred: you can look him up on google
fred: thanks andy
austin: yeah i did
andy: i feel shiny
carl: thanks for the mix fred.. and also I wanted to say thanks for doing all the admin work on flava.
fred: no prob
fred: it's not that much effort to do the admin stuff
andy: yep yep - likewise
austin: yeah you're soo good at it
fred: haha
carl: attention to detail
carl: heh
fred: mr organized
fred: that's me
fred: or something
andy: you know Fred - we all appreciate it
fred: awwww
fred: haha
andy: and without your fanaticism where would wee bee
carl: hehe
fred: okay go away now
fred: too much love
andy: seriously - it's noticed
andy: ok -
carl: next chat?
fred: week after next
fred: we'll be caught up after that one
andy: on?
fred: nelson's
fred: is he here?
austin: hello nelson?
andy: ok - then Carl's yeah?
fred: anyway
fred: yep
carl: hey Andy
andy: yup
carl: I'm going to london next week on vacation.. anything I have to check out?
fred: then winnie's
andy: oh my
andy: carl - email me
carl: yeah ok that was kind of broad
fred: haha
andy: andy
fred: haha
carl: ok cool
fred: andy wasn't that obvious?
andy: but I bet others know more
andy: oh woops, yeah -I forgot
fred: bye everyone
andy: next time
carl: cya
andy has left the room.
austin: byebye all
carl has left the room.
austin has left the room