4/21/04
8:15 to 9:15 p.m.

carl has entered the room.
christian has entered the room.
maggie has entered the room.
andy has entered the room.
maggie: ola
christian: i was getting worried there
andy: this is all of us - til Austin is free, yes?
fred: did austin send an email?
christian: yep
fred: oh okay
fred: sorry i was late
fred: let's rock 'n roll
christian: i guess go ahead and start
christian: ?
christian: we can go track by track or just straight to what people liked/didn't like
fred: so i was talking to andy about this. if this isn't mainstream rap, what do they call it. i.e. what are the subgenres of rap, if any?
maggie: there's definitely a difference
christian: see i think you would call this hip hop
maggie: like the roots...how actually play instruments
maggie: *who
christian: but for me at least i'm looking for stuff that either socially conscious or otherwise deviates from the "main stream"
christian: so, i wouldn't call it underground
christian: it's just that the labels are small
christian: :-)
andy: this is helping rekindle my interest in hip hop
andy: in fact I went and bought the roots manuva cd today
fred: what exactly is the diff b/t hip hop and rap? is some rap hip hop? and vice versa?
christian: how do did you feel the tracks on here compared to what you typically associate with "rap"
christian: or "hip-hop
andy: has rap become a word for old stuff only?
maggie: you can hear the artist's influences in the tracks
christian: i'm not expert
carl: these tracks seem more thoughtful to me. and more ... well, there's more going on here than with what I would typically associated with "rap" ..
andy: it's like dance sub-genres . . . v. confusing
christian: i think hip hop themes are different from rap themes
christian: rap seems to deal with bitches hos and $$$ exclusivelyt
carl: yeah
fred: hm
christian: hip hop seems to be more about art or something like it
maggie: hmm
andy: so it's more about attitude, subject matter e\tc.
andy: less about the sound?
christian: that's my take on it
fred: and less about the music? that's kind of weird
christian: but the lines get blurred
andy: weird world
maggie: hip hop tends to be more about the sound...not necessarily music, just the sound
maggie: rap is more about the message/lyrics
fred: so does anyone do both?
christian: because i think "popular artists" like ludakris (sp?) would consider himself to be a hip hop artist
maggie: imho
carl: I think of Lauryn Hill when I think of hip hop.. but not of this stuff so much...
maggie: hip hop also has the lifestyle slant to it
christian: yeah i agree with maggie
fred: yeah what's the hip hop lifestyle?
christian: =)
maggie: bling bling
carl: I think of Missy Elliot when I think of rap.
maggie: ditto
carl: or Dr. Dre
carl: Eminem
fred: i thought rap was about the bling bling? or is that about the ghetto?
maggie: more the ghetto
maggie: in general
christian: hip hop culture seems to draw some distinctions between MCs and DJs
christian: more about making music
christian: and rap i would say is more about a thug lifestyle
carl: I do think hip hop has more of a consciousness to it.
fred: what would the distinction be b/t mcs and djs then?
christian: an mc is the "rapper" lyricist
christian: dj is the guy that creates the beats
christian: assembles the samples etc
fred: well then how is that diff from rap?
christian: lol
andy: it
christian: i think that's the best i can do :S
andy: 's a controversy in message boards too
fred: heh
fred: okay
maggie: http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20030325.html
andy: checking it out on google - everyone has a different definition.
fred: i never really thought about it
christian: sorry
fred: ha ha the ever reliable google
andy: some guy says:
andy: oops
andy: well - he says that hip-hop is the lifestyle
andy: and it contains rap which is the music
andy: hmm - he's cracked
andy: anyway
christian: heh
andy: how bout this mix
fred: i was surprised that tracks 4 and 5 were among my favs on this mix
carl: "more multi-instrumental"
fred: they were the instr tracks
carl: that's what I like about hip hop
christian: those tracks are actually reggae/dub
carl: it's not just a beat
maggie: major thumbs up for the dub track
christian: but i was trying to show my general taste in music
christian: that's why there was some soul/funkish stuff on there
christian: reggae and hip hop
andy: why 3 ugly duckling?
christian: the thing is all these genres seem to borrow heavily from one another
fred: reggae dub ... interesting. i was wondering what you'd call it
carl: it's definitely beat-heavy, though, all of it.. that seemed to be the consistent thing
andy: just dub fred
christian: i just happened to be on an ugly duckling kick when i was coming up with a track list
andy: dub is a subgenre of reggae
carl: I like tasty beets
andy: here we go
fred: oh whoops. really?
fred: i've heard dub used in electronica in a diff context i think
fred: like a dub mix
andy: I think it's blurry - like with hip hop
maggie: not really
christian: yeah again i'd be hard pressed to draw the distinction
maggie: dub is like jazz....mellow, generally no lyrics, focusing on the sound
carl: dub is really just a style of smoking the ganja
fred: #3 had some nice sax thought it was kind of jazzy
fred: oops i mean 4
andy: dub came from lee perry and prince tubby - lots of echo, artificially lowered basslines, echoes galore
carl: yeah, the no lyrics is an important distinction
fred: that track also had some nice little noises
christian: hehe :-)
maggie: mad professor did an awesome dub remix of a massive attack album
maggie: highly reccomend it
christian: oh cool i'll check it out
fred: are most of the people on these mix relatively famous?
fred: oops this mix
christian: if you liked the jazzy feel i'm surprised you didn't like 5 more
carl: #5 seems like straight-up jazz to me
fred: yeah it reminded me of take 5 prob b/c that's pretty much the only jazz track i know
christian: ernest ranglin is more of a jazz musician that went back and forth
christian: depends who you ask
christian: but for the most part yes
christian: on west coast
christian: ugly duckling and the pharcyde are big
andy: #5 fits oddly well with #3
christian: i grew up on their music
andy: and the madlib as well
carl: the disc does have a sort of west coast vibe to it imho, though I couldn't tell you why.
christian: the madlib as you may have read
fred: #5 had a cool guitar part
christian: that album got a lot of press
christian: was a bunch of blue note recording remixes
andy: lot of these folks are left coast aren't they?
maggie: lol
andy: aren't u. duckling from west coast too?
christian: i am biased
fred: are you from the west coast?
christian: yeah washington i believe
christian: yeah bay area
fred: ah
fred: how'd you end up in boston?
christian: job after college
christian: :-)
christian: the stevie i assume you all recognizex
christian: d
maggie: yup
fred: yep. prob one of the few i know heh. ani did a pretty faithful cover live
christian: i threw him in because i really like his sound
maggie: compliments the marvin gaye track
andy: it's nice and loose - fits with the rest
christian: i hate - what i call his "jesus tracks" - but the rest is great
fred: i liked the mg track. need to listen to more of him.
fred: and barry white
andy: you do!
andy: we all do
maggie: why barry white?
carl: yeah this disc really flows well
fred: andy's gotten me into that whole soul or whatever sound
maggie: ah
andy: barry's more disco I think
christian: yeah that marvin gaye track along with the war track don't get enough air time imho
maggie: try al green before barry white
christian: :-)
andy: try them both
fred: okay as for dislikes, i really didn't like #13 even more than i didn't like #2
christian: if you're going in that direction check out the spinners too
fred: they were pretty much just a list of nostalgic references strung together
andy: I thought #13 sounded too much like #2
fred: i hate it when people sit around and talk about the tv shows they used to watch on sat morning in the 80's. i've had that conversation like 1000 times
christian: funny
andy: or at least - as F says, did the same stuff
christian: they're off the same album and they're consecutive tracks
fred: or is it just me ...
fred: although i have to say gyromite ruled
andy: stop
christian: haha
fred: winnie and i still play 8-bit NES
fred: anyway ...
christian: i like the beat for 2
andy: i liked 2
maggie: what year was the ugly duck album released?
andy: but when I got to 13 it put me off 2 in retrospect
christian: the journey to anywhere album i think was 2001
andy: what's the sample on #2?
christian: 13 i like because it make me reminisce but that's the trouble with music
andy: is it a sample or a quote?
andy: it actually sounds like war
christian: once you make associations - you forget the actual musical merit
christian: sample?
andy: the opening guitar
andy: I guess it's a quotation not a sample
christian: i have no idea where that's from
andy: james Brown or Funkadelic or something
christian: it's quite possible
andy: it links to #3 well
christian: i love listening for the samples and identifying where they're from
andy: try P5
fred: i like some of the ideas of hip hop/rip, like the sampling and the fact that everyone duets w/ everyone else
fred: oops rap
andy: me too - although I hate the simplistic Puffy type way of doing it
fred: i'm kind of out of it tonight. heh.
christian: heh
andy: a Police song with new lame lyrics - wow
christian: so of the hip hop what was your favorite track>?
fred: well what about janet sampling joni?
andy: but she does something with it
fred: yeah
andy: not just sings over the track
fred: going back to the MG track, i really liked the two voices on it. i'm assuming it's diff people?
andy: no both him
christian: yeah that's his rangew
andy: he always multitracks lots
fred: ah. it's nice. it sounds like he improvised a lot of it, but it fits well.
christian: you're probably not used to it since most modern performers don't have one ;-)
maggie: rangew?
christian: range
maggie: ah
andy: yeah - most don't have a rengew
andy: oh shit
maggie: just checkin
carl: sorry was on phone
andy: chinese whispers
fred: i also like how on that track at 4:30 it goes into this little "mother mother" section and then comes back
christian: yeah from what's going on
andy: it's part of the whole 'what's going on' suite thing
christian: i'm not sure what that's the only track people seem to know off that album
fred: i just had deja vu. heh.
andy: the mother mother is a quote from the title track
fred: oh really? that makes it even cooler!
andy: it's a fantastic album
carl: yeah that is a nice section
andy: all of his are
carl: man he sounds great
andy: imho
carl: I need to get more gaye
christian: this was the breakthrough album for him though
fred: i'm avoiding the obvious question, which is how much the lyrics are impt in hip hop?
christian: impt?
fred: important
christian: it depends on what you listen for
christian: i know some people that are all about content
carl: what's the album, christian?
christian: others are about rhyming
christian: others are about beats
fred: mm
christian: the samples the breaks etc
carl: I think of hip hop as being perhaps more political...?
christian: i would agree
fred: okay one of my fav hip hop tracks was #11. the feel of that track totally reminds me of EBTG
christian: carl, i think i was referring to "what's going on" as a breakthrough mg album
christian: ebtg?
carl: ahh. .what disc was #1 off of?
fred: ebtg = everything but the girl
christian: what's going on
carl: okay
fred: i love the accompaniment on that track
christian: oh! "and i miss you..."
fred: yeah right
carl: $8.91 on itunes music store... *buy*
fred: the acc. is sparse and kind of mm well-controlled
andy: it's funny tho - for me in hip-hop I listen to the beats and the accompaniment
andy: and kind of gloss over the vocals often
andy: the opposite of what winnie does
christian: lol
fred: the hip hop tracks that stand out to me in general have really sparse but really clear accompaniments
christian: it also depends who you listen to
andy: i like 11 - nice little squiggly scratches and all
andy: yeah - and I don't know much hip-hop
christian: yeah it's has a nice relaxed calm feel to it imho
andy: so it's like starting at the beginning every time
christian: but yeah it's a bit different from what you hear on the radip
christian: radio
fred: esp. the "dedicated" part totally sounds like a tracy thorn (ebtg) vocal line
andy: 11 is kind of loungy in a funny way
fred: yeah
andy: yes F
christian: for the most part i think because what's on the radio now is mostly southern style
andy: like 'I fell a little a feel a lot'
maggie: the hip hop/rap tracks on the mix show much more talent/skill than most of your mainstream stuff...but i can't seem to get it passed background music status for me
fred: the other hip hop track that stood out for me was #14 it made me want to smoke up
andy: maggie - I think that's what happens to me too
fred: really? i was getting into it
andy: I have to really stay with it deliberately
fred: i mean i don't catch every word but they do have choruses
andy: well - on this mix I have stayed with it
maggie: oh, and it's great to dance to
fred: ooh shake yo booty
andy: and now I'm converted again
christian: thanks
christian: yeah acid raindrops is a pretty popular "smoking song"
fred: i like how the voice is used really rhythmically. obvious, i know
carl: it really is fantastic background music though
christian: along with "many clouds of smoke"
christian: but i guess next time you listen to the radio or even east coast hip hop you may notice the difference
christian: it should be noticeable
christian: what did you guys think of the pharcyde song?
andy: ok once
fred: what would you say is the main diff b/t east and west and south hip hop?
fred: yeah i agree w/ andy
andy: in fact - big fun once
fred: i feel like i've heard that song before actually
fred: from austin or something
andy: me too
andy: I do like 14 christian
fred: yeah it was one of my favs too
christian: yeah what were the favs?
carl: the pharcyde was one of my favs actually
christian: that song is great because of the lyrics
christian: they're funny
andy: 1, 9, 11, 14
carl: yeah and also a nice groove
maggie: did any of the hip hop/rap artists on this mix use real instruments?
andy: and it was great to hear #8 again
fred: i liked #9 but i didn't feel like it developed enough
christian: 9 is a favorite of mine too
andy: yes - that's true
andy: but I like it - and I like the dub-ness of it too
andy: like the bass and his west indian accent
christian: maggie, i don't think any of the hip hop track have actual accompaniment (like the roots)
maggie: just curious
christian: mostly just records and production
christian: but yeah
christian: i guess there you have it
andy: I kind of like 10 too
christian: thanks for listening to it although i know it's not really what you're used to
maggie: even though I'm not always keep on hh/r, each track has a great balance between lyrics and sound
christian: non-prophets is from NH actually
christian: i'd never heard of them before moving here
fred: there are hip hop people from new england??
fred: j/k
christian: strangely enough
christian: a local who you may have heard of is mr lif
carl: I'm definitely going to put mix this on in the summer when I'm house painting or something.
fred: heh
carl: always try to find the right situation for each mix.
fred: haha
fred: we could have a series called "set your life to flava"
andy: out on the porch for this one
christian: well yeah so thanks for listening
fred: thanks for mixing
andy: thanks Christain - this mix fired me up
christian: i'm glad you were able to sit through it
fred: i'm glad someone finally made a hip hop mix
maggie: im bringing this to a party sat night.
andy: me too - I'm heading to Amazon.com
christian: i think austins mix is prett hip hop heavyt
carl: I like "everything you make is reduced to a barcode"
fred: yeah but you were first heh
fred: which track was that?
carl: #10
carl: ~1:00
fred: oh yeah i thought that track was a bit preachy
christian: that non-prophets album is lyrically quite impressive
christian: but yeah for the diff between left and right coast hi hop listen to austin mix
christian: ;-)
fred: okay
fred: okee dok any parting comments?
andy: cool - peaceout
christian: lol
carl: word up
fred: yeah it'll be interesting to see what you come up w/ for your next mix
carl: word to your mother
fred: andy mix next wed?
maggie: lol
christian: alright home slices... see you next week
andy: aight
fred: also email me if you have a group mix in your possession
christian: k.... lates
fred: also you people should start working on your round 7 mixes
andy: okay - here i go - thanks C
christian: k thanks bye
andy: see ya next week
fred: lataz
andy has left the room.
christian has left the room.
carl has left the room