5/12/04
8:15 to 9:15 p.m.

You have just entered room "Chat 28547714052078295713."
austin has entered the room.
carl has entered the room.
andy has entered the room.
austin has left the room.
austin has entered the room.
austin: hello flavas
carl: hello
andy: hey guys
fred: howdy
fred: looks like this is all of us for now
carl: Austin this is my favorite mix of yours yet
austin: really?
fred: really?
austin: i'm surprised
austin: haha
andy: how come carl?
carl: yeah I'm really into a lot of the grooves you picked this time.
austin: you like the hip hop?
carl: and lots of stuff I've never heard of
carl: yeah I'm sort of a closeted hip hop fan I guess
andy: me too ;-)
fred: you know i think part of the thing that turns me off on this kind of thing is that a lot of times they're content to just use one riff for the whole song or maybe two
fred: i.e. little to no development
andy: yep - you can't be waiting for surprises
fred: in general the beats are good though
andy: but that's ok, if you don't expect more than you get, I guess
andy: I like stuff on this mix - but it feels a little more random than usual
fred: also, there are cases where they play w/ words but it doesn't add up to anything. like on 15: "roll the mike like fidel castro" it's just in there b/c it fits the rhyme scheme or whatever
fred: but o/w it's completely abitrary
fred: oops arbitrary
austin: well part of the fun for me is to understand why they rhyme random things like that
fred: is there a reason usu?
austin: yeah most of the time
carl: I think that's
carl: not just a hip hop thing
carl: I mean look at REM
andy: good point!
carl: I think of it is as impressionist lyricism
carl: kind of fun
andy: another kind of lyric - for sound more than meaning
andy: sometimes
carl: but also to me it seems simple.. in the sense that you can just make words up, so perfect rhymes and phrasings are easy
fred: but it makes it much less purposeful
andy: well - for rhythms I spose
andy: yeah F - unless the rhythm IS the point
andy: in wich case meaning is coincidental, or secondary
austin: yeah also, most rappers come up with their material adlib
fred: and also, some rap tries to have a message or whatever, but then they totally divert the flow of the message by having a random irrelevant rhyme
andy: rap is conflicted
austin: so you see them reuse material a lot because if they know a rhyme, it buys them a little time to think
austin: it's not as deliberate as other music
andy: yeah - but
andy: austin these aren't live recordings
carl: yeah that's the thing. you can be so much more calculated
andy: they've had plenty of time to edit, fine tune etc.
carl: so why not put the effort into it?
andy: hmm
austin: hmmm
carl: I'll tell you what tho
andy: maybe you lose something else that way
carl: I really like the outkast stuff
austin: some of them definitely do
fred: i really disliked the outkast stuff
austin: outkast's stuff is pretty polished
austin: why's that fred?
andy: i'm not convinced by outkast
carl: they always seem a cut above in my opinion
andy: it's george clinton and frank zappa redux
fred: well the first track was a throwaway
andy: with a layer of rap
andy: i like it - but no more than 'toxic'
fred: and i hated the chorus of "spread"
fred: this overt sexuality was really boring to me
fred: the music was fine though
carl: yeah they are pretty sexed up but
carl: I do like the kind of variety they introduce
andy: they are campy
carl: like the little jazz riffs
andy: kitschy - that's fun
andy: but the joke wears thin after a listen
carl: I don't know. I have a feeling they have staying power, actually. I think they're going to be around a long time.
austin: yeah i feel like sometimes hip hop artists use sex to sell their music
austin: makes for better music videos
carl: hehe
andy: but i never got ms. jackson either
austin: which is why i put dirty tracks on there
andy: the outkast i mean
fred: janet?
andy: the Outkast song which everyone thought was so deep
andy: so topical
andy: I thought - - mmm
fred: oh yeah i vaguely remember that
carl: Austin, what's the story with Cinematic Orchestra?
carl: I was definitely drawn into that track
andy: any of you see the whitney biennial?
andy: it reminds me of rap
austin: it's actually a track by jeru
austin: you're absolutely right
carl: I'm looking at the whitney site now
austin: the song is called come clean.
andy: it's very now . . . historyless, contextless
andy: i sound like a fogey
andy: anyway - i like the Jeru track
andy: although the sample got tired
andy: what is it? I've been trying to remember
andy: not the sample - the steal . . . the backing track on #15
carl: I can't tell
fred: some of these tracks i liked but they were a bit long. like #19
fred: does anyone know what the title means?
andy: it's the instrumental break from some 70's prog rock thing I think
fred: are most of these people famous?
carl: I don't think so
fred: is outkast popular? is it a group?
austin: madlib is very big in underground rap
carl: outkast is huge
austin: he has a new album out that was mentioned in the new york times
carl: you know that song "hey ya!"
carl: shake it like a polaroid picture
carl: etc
fred: hm
austin: outkast get's a lot of radio play
fred: sounds vaguely familiar
fred: so it is just a guy?
carl: 2 guys
austin: i like the line, "lend me some sugar, i am your neighbour"
carl: big boi and andre 3000
austin: from the south
andy: F - we saw a dance to Hey Yah at mit the other night
fred: ah. are most of these rap/hip hop people one guy or two or a group?
carl: don't ask me how I know that
austin: they were outcasts in the east coast west coast thing
austin: hence their name
carl: they're from texas or something
carl: houston
carl: ?
andy: i think the Jeru track is a Moody Blues riff
andy: ain't that a kick?
andy: but mebbe I remeber rong
austin: oh really?
carl: I liked how you slipped that magnetic fields in there..
andy: it's on the tip of my brain
fred: so are most of these rap/hip hop people one guy or two or a group?
carl: I thnk 1-2 Fred
andy: aren't they all singletons or duos nowadays?
andy: apart from eminem's posse
austin: yeah
carl: it'd be cool to see an 11 piece hip hop group though
austin: there isn't that much required for a hip hop group
andy: that would !
austin: usually there's a dj as backup
carl: the roots are 4-5 right?
fred: so one person does the rapping and the other does the music?
andy: I love Beenie Man
carl: yeah that's the traditional division of labor
austin: yeah
andy: more ragga
austin: there used to be a lot of big rap groups
fred: interesting.
andy: more reggae
austin: wu tang
andy: more toastin' mon
andy: wu tang are gone now, yes?
austin: yeah they've split up
carl: I have to get used to the idea
andy: and public enemy
andy: they were good
carl: of hearing reggae that isn't about 1970s jamaica
andy: oh me too Carl
fred: yeah track 16 was interesting
andy: I feel confused . . . i have such a finished picture in my head of what Jamaica is
andy: and it's entirely anachronistic
andy: and prob. colonial
carl: guess its time for a holiday
andy: you know i like the Outkast - but . . . it really really reminds me of zappa
fred: that track had a lot more singing in it than the others
andy: from 20 years ago
fred: i mean tr 16
austin: you should check out the outkast album
andy: the new one?
austin: yeah
fred: also on tr 16 the guy is kind of rapping kind of singing
andy: yeah - maybe - not convinced . . . what I mean is - I've heard this all before
austin: it's easy listening rap
andy: ha!
austin: beenie man is amazing
andy: F - i think the Jamaican stuff is quite different
austin: so many people copied his style
andy: and it's history is convoluted -certainly in UK
austin: missy elliot
andy: yes!
andy: she's been listening to dancehall
austin: snoop dog
andy: even busta rhymes is a kind of hybrd
fred: was tr 8 really the whole track?
carl: I was thinking of missy when I heard beenie actually
austin: missy elliot by the way is the only female rapper that i know and happen to like
carl: "who got the keys to the bimmer"
austin: yeah exactly
carl: missy sings "beep beep, who got the keys to the jeep" or something
austin: fred: i think that track was mixed into another, so it sounds like it got cut off
andy: A - me too . . .she's head and shoulders above any others
fred: i liked it b/c it seemed more succinct than the others
andy: and better then most male rappers too
andy: I'm sorry, however . . . I don't really get Stepehen Merritt - is that his name?
fred: yep
andy: it's all ok - but - is he really a genius? just cuz he writes lotsa songs which are all pretty tuneful
fred: he's a little bit predictable
fred: actually not a little
andy: i thihnk so
fred: a lot
fred: but his songs are catchy
andy: yeah - I like it - but I've yet to be thrilled
fred: i hear ya
andy: yep - undoubtedly
austin: what you do guys think about roots manuva
carl: I'm into mag. fields a lot right now
andy: but I'm waiting for the and
andy: the new CD?
fred: and?
carl: yeah the new one is pretty good
andy: exactly - and . . .
andy: so . . .
carl: hehe
fred: andy bought the roots manuva cd
andy: catchy, and . . . .
carl: don't make it out to be a lot more than what it is
andy: I did - but
austin: which one did you get?
andy: yeah - I've just been reading hyperbolic reviews I think
carl: I think he's got a kind of simplicity, economy
carl: that I'm really into
andy: run come whatever
fred: i liked this preacher thing in this track
austin: save me
andy: yes!
andy: I like it - although it's less varied than I'd hoped
carl: his melodies are just great
austin: i like the sound of two people rapping at the same time
andy: yeah - and I like the west indian mix in there
andy: BUT
austin: i think it's him, but overlayed
andy: the nrew STREETS
fred: that preacher guy reminds me of something else
austin: haha the streets
fred: yeah the synthesized strings remind me of the streets
andy: is coming out - now that's the future
andy: actually english rap is the future
andy: well - ok
andy: who the hell are a.s.dragon?
fred: so is roots manuva two people? who's this "sins" guy?
andy: no - one guy
andy: like A said - it's him double tracked
fred: really? whoa!
fred: that's really well done
fred: oh i totally didn't catch austin's comment
andy: i think it's a v.cool sound - he has a t'ing
fred: what language is tr 10?
austin: haha they're french punk rockers
fred: funny
austin: really popular in france
andy: ah
austin: they sing like they're rapping too
andy: alors
andy: I love the cranky old analog synth sound at the start
andy: wish it had stayed more
fred: what are they saying in tr 11? it sounds like "hock it up squeek it up"
carl: hug ya
carl: squeeze ya
fred: haha
andy: you know Austin - the more we chat about this mix, the more i like it
fred: that track reminds me strongly of that sea and cake remixed track
fred: yeah me too actually
andy: I think what people are saying is giving me tools to focus
fred: for me it's from being in a mood that's more getting into the groove
fred: i think oftentimes i get impatient w/ music that doesn't go anywhere
andy: yes - same here Fred
carl: yeah it takes time to get into that mood
andy: yep, but it sometimes takes a different approach to listening to it
fred: not time, i think it takes wine heh
carl: I always think of this kind of stuff as background music-- at first.
fred: quite a few of these tracks i liked the background a lot but wasn't so wild on the vocals
andy: I wonder if it's a new way of thinking about vocals though
fred: like tr 6 had really great little bubbly sounds
andy: post rap - vocals can sometyimes be entirely rhythm/texture
carl: has anyone in this group done a country mix?
andy: not the vehicle for the song's purpose
fred: not yet carl
andy: not yet Carl
andy: haha
andy: I was going to do one soon actually
carl: I have to do it
andy: old country
carl: yeah
andy: yes - do it!!
carl: hehe or you can do it.
carl: ;-)
andy: can we take two country mixes? or will people explode?
fred: so austin did every track have a dirty word in it?
fred: did track 21 even have any words in it?
andy: yeah A - how come you know so much dirty-word music?
carl: I like the Lock, Stock & Two Smoking Barrels stuff
andy: I have to see that again
andy: after this mix
carl: yeah that's a pretty good one
austin: i don't know whether every song has a dirty word in it
fred: oh whoops i mean track 20. and i see that it's the title
austin: i started off with a different idea
carl: I think it's just the title
andy: tell me about swollen members
carl: I didn't like the SM track
andy: which i like
andy: is it all a silly joke, or do they exist?
andy: why not Carl?
austin: they're quite popular on the west coast
carl: I have a hard time putting my finger on it
austin: i saw them in san francisco opening for someone else
fred: man, that track has a chorus that epitomizes why i find this kind of music so tiresome. "S & M rocks the spot"? how boring can you get
andy: is this typical of what they do?
austin: haha
carl: there you go, fred.
fred: i mean, i'm all for pop music, but britney can do better than "britney rocks the spot without a doubt"
fred: i think this is just a hangup that i have don't mind me
andy: accidental avalanches - on the dark side of the moon silver skeletons skip
andy: or something like that
austin: yeah but the lyrics aren't important red
austin: fred
andy: there's some fun stuff buried around the silly chorus
austin: there's a bit of mockery there. i mean they call themselves swollen members
carl: I think there are certain kinds of rapper voices, or rapping styles, that just turn me off
fred: yeah me too
andy: same
austin: me too
andy: although for me it's the gangsta struttung stuff
austin: haha especially the really aggressive criminal style
carl: maybe it is a kind of machismo vibe that I think is total bullshit
austin: like 50 cents
fred: something i do like is how hip hop/rap can have really minimal accompaniments. like tr 18 is just one bass line and some beats
austin: i HATE him
andy: ugh
andy: worthless
andy: well - worth 50 cents
carl: that's 50 cent
carl: to you
andy: yo
austin: you guys should come to new york and we'll go check out some spoken word/freestyle
carl: yeahhhh
andy: F - I prefer spare hiphop too
carl: I like that stuff
andy: I think it's one of the reasons I like Missy
carl: yes me too
andy: she doesn't clutter . .. shes chooses
carl: I think it's possible to have many many layers
andy: NY, ah NY
fred: hmm i think we should start wrapping it up
austin: i'm surprised you haven't talked about the marianne faithfull
andy: yes - and all of these peple are doing different things - it's all good
carl: but you'd better mix it well
andy: as Denis Rodman would say
fred: didn't like the MF track nearly as much as the other one
fred: she's kind of cool though
andy: which?
austin: i liked the track's story
carl: I like the new MF CD: "I had a dream and you were in it / the blue of your eyes was infinite"
fred: the one that billy corgan co-wrote
andy: oh - marianne
andy: i think she did this already - but i like it fine
carl: that was my least favorite track
andy: she's earned honorary decadent status
austin: yeah what a life
fred: okay so in case you were wondering maggie's dropping out.
austin: and she's still making music
carl: I acutally liked #4
andy: you know on another mix I would have liked this a lot
austin: yeah it's the odd one out
andy: but I agree - on this mix it was one of my less appreciated
andy: yeah - that's why
andy: but she's tough - you gotta admire that
andy: have any of you read her autobiography?
austin: no
andy: it's short, but scary
fred: i think you asked us that last time
austin: worth a read?
andy: very interesting stuff
austin: haha
fred: or maybe not i forget
andy: yes definitely
andy: perhaps
andy: I'm her agent
fred: anyway, you all got my email right? about dropping out?
andy: oh oh oh
austin: so sad
andy: waaah
fred: it's cool
carl: yeah Fred, I don't think it's going to stay together without you.
andy: I'm sad and guilty
fred: it's cool it's cool
carl: but you know I think people are feeling a lot of spring fever right now
carl: I know I am
andy: me too
fred: spring fever?
andy: and i have a suggestion
andy: I'd like us to continue
andy: and I'd like to have a break
andy: If we can come back together in say 2 months
carl: yeah that's what I think, too
austin: mmm
andy: I'll do all that Fred did
austin: that's a good idea
andy: not as well, or as passionately
fred: har har
andy: but I'll do it
carl: Fred, I do have to say that you've been pretty great at holding this thing together.
andy: unless someone else wants that onerous task?
fred: okay that sounds fine. i might make copies of the mixes andy's gets for myself
andy: Fred- you have been our gloo
fred: no prob
carl: keeping us on task
austin: yeah it won't have been this great without you
fred: s'coo'
andy: If we keep it going fred might rejoin??
austin: getting those group mixes was a pain
austin: but it was rewarding afterwards
andy: anyway - I do enjoy f-is-f
fred: oh yeah i was hoping we'd get through them all but i'm not going to nag people anymore i'm waaay past that
andy: and I'd hate to see it stop . . . shall we plan a short break then a rousing re-entry in a month or two?
fred: i don't think i'll be back in two months, but i'll think about it again when/if winnie gets back
andy: let's think about it and email each other over the next week or two
carl: do you think we can reform it in a way that
carl: doesn't require all the administrative work that Fred has had to do?
fred: i don't think there was much admin stuff to do on my side
fred: but that's only if people are involved
fred: but anyway
andy: yep
carl: well, lets talk more on the mailing list about it.. but I am sorry to hear you're leaving
andy: me too Fred
austin: don't be a stranger fred
fred: nope
carl: ok gotta run guys
carl: ttyl
fred: later
andy: this was a fine and odd mix Austin
carl: thanks for the mix austin
fred: yeah i'll be coming back to this one i think
carl has left the room.
austin: great to hear that
andy: we'll all be in touch somewhen
austin: yup. take care fred
fred: yup. later
andy: ok - off I go too - bye all
andy has left the room.
austin: bye bye
austin has left the room