4/8/03
10:10 p.m. to 11:10 p.m.

You have just entered room "Chat 30205040473137349012."
fred: hmm. i'll call andy
winnie: where is everyone?
winnie: okay
fred: did you get mike?
fred: tom's not coming
winnie: yup
winnie: and joyce?
fred: i'm assuming she's not going to make it
winnie: she also said something about him only getting one cd so far
fred: mm
winnie: yo, were you a fan of star trek: TNG?
winnie: go to my blog
fred: was i a fan of star trek anything??
fred: andy's cd got returned but joyce said she'd give tom a copy
fred: grrrrrr
winnie: is that a no?
winnie: okay
austin has entered the room.
austin: hey guys
fred: hmm should i try to call mike? he might be doing work though
fred: andy should be here soon
austin: oh i don't mean to interrupt your one on one
austin: oh ok
austin: haha don't tell him this. but track 6 is a little elevator music
fred: hahaha
fred: i like that song
austin: oh wait. you're going to post the chat
austin: doh
Andy has entered the room.
austin: hey speak of the devil
fred: i mylord winnie testicle recipes???!!???
Andy: grrroooahhhhrrrr
Andy: (devil noise)
austin: haha what was that fred?
fred: http://thatswhatyouthink.com/weblog.html
fred: our blog has turned into winnie's adventures in good farming ;-)
austin: hey andy. is there something ironic or patriotic about the colour scheme
Andy: well- kind of, yeah
Andy: both i guess
austin: oh wait. the union jack. not the american flag
austin: sorry
fred: haha
Andy: yes- the original annoying red white and blue
winnie: nice.
fred: so first off, i have to say i liked almost all of the mix, the main exception being the first scott walker song
winnie: (sorry i took a potty break, fred. as expected.)
fred: lol
Andy: ah . . scott, scott. scott
Andy: he was sooo cute
fred: really?
Andy: mmm
winnie: oh yeah, i really didn't dig that one
Andy: I know - i kind of threw it in as an oddity - to see what would happen
fred: you mean other than worldwide retching?
winnie: it sounds like it was pulled straight out of a bad musical.
Andy: yup!
austin: yeah i know
austin: and his voice
fred: haha
Andy: which was. let's be clear, an extremely extremely odd thing for a justin timberlake type popstar to do in 1969
fred: i didn't mind 8 nearly so much
winnie: yeah, definitely a provocative track. i'm provoked to skip it.
austin: mmm i'm feeling a little disney
fred: haha winnie
Andy: you gotsta have the historical perspoective on this
fred: actually i liked 8 i think
fred: well what else did he do?
Andy: scottie?
fred: yeh
Andy: he is the ur-recluse
winnie: oh yeah, i meant 8. not 5. as i just realized THAT would be the first scottie track
austin: yeah it's sort of just the right time period. when you recognise the songs, but not by the titles,
Andy: arrived in england in 66 with the so-called 'walker btorhters'
winnie: ha. joyce would've appreciated that pronouncement, andy.
Andy: um - that would be 'brothers'
Andy: sowwy
fred: haha
Andy: became a huge star (with the boys)
Andy: left at the ,as they say, peak of his fame
fred: rolling stone sex: Their own producer, Jack Nitzche, said "I don't like white music, Scott's white and sounds it."
fred: oops i meant sez
winnie: actually i don't like 5 either. i feel like it needs some accompanying line dancers.
Andy: started recording croony old-timry songs
Andy: made four albums - each one a little weirdewr, then stopped for 15 years
austin: and started again?
fred: interesting. it would be really interesting to hear some of his older, more popular and successful stuff
fred: http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/bio.asp?oid=1208&cf=1208
winnie: wearing lots of spangly leotard type outfits. in red. and descending a cheesily-lit stairway.
fred: Virtually every time they took the stage, Walker was intoxicated, trying desperately to hide his shyness from the swarming crowds of fans, claiming, "We were the drunkest group ever."
fred: what did his early stuff sound like?
fred: the beatles?
Andy: yup -= 'climate of hunter' in the 70's and 'Tilt' in the early 90's
fred: When the band called it quits in the late '60s, Walker refused to give up.He immediately embarked on a solo career beginning with remakes of the French troubadour Jacques Brel.
fred: okay i'll stop regurgitating rolling stone now
winnie: belgian, actually.
Andy: sounds like phil spector meets burt bacharach
fred: belgian?
winnie: i dunno who phil spector is, but yeah, i hear a little bacharach timbre
winnie: brel
winnie: is
Andy: Scott . . . . like it or not . . . . is a cult hero
winnie: interesting.
Andy: there's a compilation album from a decade ago
winnie: there's plenty of stuff on here though that i love
fred: andy sez: first I should say that most of these tracks are so embedded in my head from my teenage years that I have no idea if they're good, bad, or nothing much. I have no objectivity . . . all that 'soundtrack of my life' stuff
Andy: called 'The Godlike Genius of Scott Walker'
winnie: which makes sense, since i'm sort of a slave to pop music
Andy: what more can we say
fred: had so much to choose from that I decided to limit myself to UK music from a 2 or 3 year period by chart-oriented bands (for the most part).
fred: I also wanted to pick some music by bands who went on to be dinosaurs but began as perky indies before the term existed.
Andy: btw where's indie mike???
winnie: it's funny, alot of these do sound really familiar, though i've never heard of them before
winnie: or heard them
fred: so yeah, re: indies, was this what everyone in britain was listening on the radio or were these the more subversive people?
Andy: all on the radio
fred: i mean, what else was around at the time? what were they doing in the states?
Andy: but even now the uk is less play-lisyed than the us
austin: was that the only source of music? a la mtv today
winnie: 9 sounds very joni mitchell
fred: all on the radio? interesting
fred: i agree winnie about 9
Andy: also 6 or 7 so-called 'pirate'radio stations, austin
Andy: they broadcast from ships anchored offshore
fred: haha andy
Andy: winnie - I never got that - but YES it does
Andy: hmmm
winnie: the zombies remind me of the beach boys. but i dunno if i'm totally off on that, since i'm not a connoiseur of wilson & friends' oeuvre
Andy: i think there is a simnilarity
fred: oh yeah tr 1 is another one that i still steer clear of
austin: really? i'm quite fond of that one
Andy: but I think the b.boys are amongst the most gigantic pop geniuses of all time
winnie: the first one is sort of monkees-like
fred: and andy -- i can't listen to #10 w/out thinking "jemery"
austin: i think the chorus is cute
winnie: i really like 1
austin: i love the disney girls
Andy: disney girls?
austin: beach boy song
Andy: oh - the b.boys song?
Andy: yes - lovely
winnie: yes, very cute. i like the guy going "bum, bum, bum, bum, bum" in the background
fred: which one?
fred: #1?
winnie: in 1
Andy: bum bum bum ?
winnie: in the background, there's someone or something that's doing a little arpeggiated thing
winnie: hold on, lemme get a time
Andy: I have to say that, for me, a lot of what chartacterizes this stuff is its innocence
Andy: is that because I was a sweet innocent lad when I first heard it?.
winnie: about 00:50
Andy: or is it , in itself, kind of innocent?
winnie: i think it's innocent in itself
winnie: as a product of the times and of the people of that time
Andy: oh - the bah bah bah bah?
winnie: sure. bah, bum, whatever
Andy: yup - it's lovely
austin: probably less politically charged than the american counterpart
winnie: or maybe it's just part of the feeling
Andy: definitely - which is partly why I made this a UK mix
austin: haha i don't hear the bababa
Andy: it got very complicated when I added in US tracks
winnie: sort of like the resurgence of bubblegum pop in the US & UK in the early 90s
austin: i hear. ohhhh paaaaaper suuuuun
Andy: baba is up above the vocal at :50
winnie: huh?
winnie: oh
austin: anyways...
Andy: wrong track, austin
austin: oh i seee
fred: lol
winnie: but wasn't much of this stuff in america too?
Andy: you're on 2, we're on 1
winnie: i mean, as far as the who, kinks and all them
fred: oh yeah i remember the ba ba ba stuff -- i liked that
Andy: nope - most of it was quite separate
austin: oh shit. skipped with out me noticing. good sequencing andy
Andy: woops
winnie: i love the kinds, by the way. this (along with the hipster handbook) prompted me to grab some other tracks.
Andy: winnie - yes, but later
Andy: these guys were just starting out at this time and were about as big as Pinback are now
fred: in the uk?
winnie: oh. i like "dedicated follower of fashion"
winnie: some mamas & papas in 2
Andy: I could have done a whole Kinks mix
winnie: how very boho
winnie: yeah? i'd be interested in that.
winnie: i don't mean to keep skipping about, but i want to hear a little about petula clark, cos i'm a big fan now.
fred: really?
winnie: yeah, totally
Andy: oh - she's sooo good - the Abba of the 60's
winnie: i wonder why i feel the need to make comparisons. i think i will anyway -- she reminds me of, shoot, i don't remember her name...
fred: your mom?
Andy: who who
fred: haha i am soo funny
Andy: dammit
austin: haha
Andy: who??
winnie: there's an american equivalent. one of her songs is at the beginning of father of the bride or some ridiculous movie about a wedding.
fred: no not the who
fred: my best friend's wedding?
fred: wishin and hopin was dusty springfield or something
winnie: no, i think it's father of the bride. it's earlier than BFW
winnie: oh yeah, dusty springfield.
fred: i like the sitar on 2
winnie: that's the boho part.
fred: these songs all have interesting little bits
Andy: pet, our pet . . .at 0:36 of 'subway'
Andy: I love how her voice gets all mean and brassy
fred: it always amazes me to think they had to do all this on the equivalent of an analog 4 track or something
Andy: as she holds the word 'for' and sinks her teeth into the bridge
fred: i thought that song was sweet!
winnie: yeah, i was thinking about that
winnie: (fred)
Andy: yes - F - usually 2 track
fred: whoaaa
Andy: in fact - I thinkl everything here is one take or at the most two track
winnie: i wonder if pop music sounds more insipid now b/c of instrumentation (or lack of) or something
fred: well it certainly doesn't have as warm a sound w/ electronic instruments you know?
winnie: it probably sounds contrary to say 'more", but this stuff seems warmer
winnie: yeah, that's precisely what i mean
Andy: aren't bands doing one take recordings again - I think they realize what's lost in overoveroverdubbing
fred: mm
fred: actually i think you're right andy -- this song has a lot of diff emotional sections
winnie: are they? probably not the ones that would be the equivalent of whatever these were then
fred: tenderness in the chorus, but sort of pissy in the verse
Andy: you mean petula?.
austin: might just be the vinyl
Andy: yeah - she's meannnn
fred: i think the chorus is sweet esp w/ the "whoos"
fred: listening to this again i'm hearing more of the little bits
winnie: there's alot of overengineering now, particulary with the people who are aiming for chart positions
fred: like the running acc in the verse
Andy: do you all know 'Good Vibrations' by the beach boys?
austin: right. good production gets you far. look at the flaming lips
austin: yup
winnie: i think so
Andy: can you hear how these guys ape it in the chorus of 'subway'?
fred: yeah, but overproduction makes it feel fake
Andy: high 'boopb boop' bass
Andy: etc
austin: yup. that's what people want thoguh
fred: i think people respond to a warmer, more natural sound though
Andy: isn't engineering poart of the whole creative process?
fred: maybe people will start going back to the natural, non genetically modified brand of music
Andy: depends what you want
fred: engineering or production?
Andy: mm
Andy: nothing's better . . . everything's different
fred: i disagree
fred: pollution is def not better
austin: i think good engineering is part of it. to perfectly reproduce what the artist spontaneously creates. but to modify a postiori or somehting is not so nice
winnie: it's funny how even the synths from the 80s sound alot warmer than alot of guitars today
fred: and why eat pasta from a can when you can eat the real thing?
austin: cuz it's easier
fred: not quite the same w/ music, but there's def something to be said by real music being made live by real people
Andy: but there are trhings you can only do with this kind of manipulation
austin: let's not get into food. i can feel winnie winding up
Andy: like a fiddlehead fern
winnie: haha. i was just thinking if that was an appropriate analogy
winnie: haha
winnie: or like ramps
winnie: ?
fred: haha. but yeah, so modern tech enables us to do some great things, but most people would rather have real strings accompanying than a synthesizer
Andy: I love to leek
winnie: ew..?
Andy: are you sure?
Andy: sorry
winnie: not always, fred.
austin: well...
Andy: not sure that's true Fred
fred: well a fair number of times at least
Andy: I think most people want . . . .smoothhhhnesss . . .
Andy: at any damn pricew
Andy: price
winnie: so many bands acquire a distinctive sound because they eschew strings, etc.
fred: well what about a piano vs an electric piano? most pianists much prefer the real thing
austin: mmm it depends. i know audiophiles spends a shit lot of money on "bright but easy to listen to" sound
fred: although the concept of a synth keyboardist is valid and new and a diff thing
winnie: really? but there are plenty of hammond, etc. enthusiasts, aren't there?
Andy: not the Pizzicato Five
Andy: synthesized sounds are as 'real' as acoustic sounds
Andy: i think
austin: yeah. but i think fred like the fact that they sound different everytime
austin: or at least are less uniform
winnie: i think they are too. i'm sure you could achieve similar sounds/timbres if you just figured out how to shape the instrument to produce those waves. or something.
austin: i was reading a book on this. incidentally
fred: i just prefer acoustic sounds in general i think, although i def do like electronic stuff too
austin: the author believed that it wasn't possible to simulate all the interaction between the wood and fittings with nature and season
austin: he thought it was a living object. but i agree with winnie
Andy: well - what's wrong with both
austin: do you think there's an innate affinity to acoustic sounds?
austin: over electronic
winnie: it's funny, but i might have that affinity.
winnie: but i'm wondering if it's b/c of my classical training?
fred: well i don't think it's wrong to have both, but i'm saying these recordings sound so much warmer and immediate than current recordingsn
fred: oops
fred: to me anyway
austin: yeah. i have some modern recordings on vinyl. and i definitely prefer the old ones
winnie: yeah, maybe it is a vinyl issue.
winnie: or not, then.
austin: the new recordings sound better on cd
winnie: interesting
Andy: I think immediacy and excitement come over on a recording
austin: the old ones sound better on vinyl
fred: i think it has to do w/ a lot of stuff sounding really overproduced and slick
Andy: yes - these people (even if unknowingly) did what worked for the medium
austin: these songs sound more Intimate
Andy: and so does mariah icccharey
Andy: she sounds 'right' for radio in 2001
Andy: god help us all
winnie: i have a question for you andy: so even though these songs are sort of built into your childhood and you can't really be that objective per se about them,
austin: haha oh dea
Andy: so - did anyone like 'blackberry way'?
winnie: would you say they were formative?
austin: track?
Andy: who dat?
Andy: 15
winnie: yeah. beatlesy?
Andy: yeah
Andy: big, numero uno in uk
Andy: and now it sounds so doomy and cheesy
Andy: cheese-doom, a new genre
winnie: well it's got that dirgey feeling
winnie: hahaha
Andy: i remember it felt kind of old-fashioned when it was released, but everyone bought it . . .odd
fred: yeah i agree sort of cheese doomy
Andy: oh - winnie - sorry . . . some were formative, some were just fun
fred: i really liked 11 ... really gentle
fred: didn't even notice it the first few times i heard the cd, it's so gentle
Andy: most were formative for non-musical reasons - rebellion, badness etc.
winnie: yeah, i guess that's what i was getting at
austin: yeah we never get the real gentle accoustic sound anymore.
Andy: but it's hard to work out, you know
winnie: yes, very much
winnie: yeah, what happened to elliot smith?
winnie: heh
Andy: i really like a couple of pink floyd albums . . .an dthen . . . oh dear
Andy: oh him!!???
austin: kings of convenience released an album called "quiet is the new loud", then quickly followed it with a remix album that had loud versions of all the same songs
Andy: he had that bad oscar experience
Andy: well - any oscar exprience is bad
winnie: ha
Andy: poor lad
fred: yeah you are so full of radness and badness!!!
Andy: and ladness
fred: who?
Andy: who?
winnie: you guys are weird.
fred: elliot smith?
Andy: you know - droopy
Andy: what was the movie he did the s'track for?
Andy: soem Gus Van Sant thing?
fred: droopy?
winnie: good will hunting?
winnie: the movie with mit in it?
Andy: oh - yes!!
Andy: it was!
Andy: ha
Andy: barely a movie
Andy: the poor little thing
austin: you like them apples
Andy: um
winnie: hey, i liked it
Andy: the apple scene was rousing
fred: i thought the movie was dumb!
Andy: wasn't that when robin williams jumped the shark
austin: track 13 is fun
fred: heh
Andy: no no
fred: no that was way back when
Andy: that was dead poets thingy
fred: so who is elliot smith?
austin: i hear blur
Andy: in 'bike'? - ah good!
winnie: yes, me too
Andy: it's from 69 - read em and weep, damon
winnie: now, there's some ladness
austin: haha
Andy: I tyhink the tracks I feel most strongly about, however
Andy: are the kinks
austin: why?
fred: YO! WHO IS ELLIOT SMITH??
Andy: not sure why - but I just love Waterloo Sunset
Andy: oh -F
austin: haha
fred: nobody loves me :-(
fred: waah
Andy: he's a geezer who got famous for 15 minutes
winnie: hahah
Andy: he did the soundtrack for Good Hill Wunting
austin: http://www.psych.purdue.edu/~esmith/home.html
Andy: just a bunch of droopy songs
Andy: yo
austin: there's some ladness
Andy: austin - that was a cruel trick
fred: oh
austin: sorry
fred: haha
Andy: although - this guy might actually be hipper than the other elliot
austin: haha. that's cruel
Andy: ok ok i'm fadin away
austin: mmm great mix andy
winnie: yup
winnie: props
Andy: ta, A
Andy: + W
Andy: til we meet again, guys
winnie: see you next time. hopefully we'll have gotten tom's mix by then.
austin: till next time
fred: yep
winnie has left the room.
Andy: oh, yeah 0- right - hmm, as if - yeah
Andy: yup
austin: good night boys
Andy: g'night all
fred: lata
Andy has left the room.
austin has left the room.